My problem with the villains in NNS isn’t so much that they lack any motivation, it’s more the fact that they’re all so ridiculously over-the-top like they came straight out of “Animaniacs.” Don’t get me wrong, I love over-the-top villains, but when you KEEP making every villain either a raging lunatic or a slimeball, it gets old really fast. Not to mention their punishments typically range from just simply being annoyed to mere punches in the face.
Which is why I appreciate that we’re getting some level of depth with Deb here, showing she has an actual motivation without being TOO over-the-top.
I kinda guessed it was that “loved a target, but couldn’t express it properly” thing with her. Deb seemed way to fixated on Tina and always mocking her family like some brat trying to come off as mature. By her third story arc, I pretty much figured this might be case, and now we have confirmation. Can’t say it wasn’t fun getting there though, hehe. And JB, I get where your coming from. I don’t mind a villain who just crazy for the sake of crazy or evil. And yeah nuanced villains are fine too, explaining why they are how they are but too far gone to realize actions. But man do I get annoyed with some media who either don’t want to properly punish villains or too taken with them to really do so and half-ass it like saying they were punished offscreen rather then showing it. I’ve had my fair share of bullies too, got some victories over a few of them but likewise had to walk away from some conflicts unfulfilled but ultimately doing so rather then continue a pointless fight, online pricks especially. So stories like these really keep my spirit up that there can be some justice in the world. Kudos.
@jbwarner86 Many of us have been bullied and vice-versa at some point of our lives. And I have seen many other artists who shared your views about villains getting redeemed at the end and I have no problem with that.
I myself admit I am too new as a follower of your strips, but I have seen the previous ones in this site and, as @The Eye said, Tina was in the same place as Deb in the previous continuity. I have even seen Tina’s own flats when it comes to catch up with then-modern kids such as having a co-worker into dressing up as a Ninja Turtle and it ended so badly.
And reading what @M has post, yes, both Deb and Jessica has many things in common but they did what they did for different reasons: Jessica wanted to “recover everything she had lost” by getting rid of Lindsay, while Deb had to hide up her homosexuality by doing what she did while blaming everyone (aside from her ex and Tina) for her OWN failures. She went as far by even taking Jacob away from his father and give him what she thought it was best for him (or for HER, actually).
@jbwarner86: Maybe I’m acting like an armchair psychologist, but it might be that the strong desire from your readership for villains who are less over-the-top comes from a similar place as some of the weariness of the inclusion of the contemporary politics. And, it seems that if one wants a character “who’d have a realistic chance at redemption,” we needn’t look further than Lindsay, an ex-villain who joins the series post heel-face turn. Speaking of which, I appreciate that Jessica’s revenge on Lindsay was a villainous form of “pulling one thread in their plans and letting them destroy themselves.”
@The Eye: I guess this might be self-evident from the last three years of Nineteen-Ninety-Something, but personally I’m tired of this modern trend in writing where every villain needs to be sympathetic and get redeemed at the end. Me, I love writing monsters. To me, it’s so satisfying for my characters to outsmart a vicious selfish bully and bring all their plans crashing down around them. I don’t get nearly as much of a sense of accomplishment from villains who just realize on their own that they’re the bad guys – I think it’s more interesting to explore why they’re convinced they’re not.
I’m sure it comes from growing up in an environment where almost everyone in my life picked on me constantly, for reasons I couldn’t even understand. And now as an adult, I look at the news and see the same kind of smug unrepentant jerks, only now they run the whole world. To this day, I still want to know why bad people do what they do, but I am under no sort of impression that they will ever change their ways. Sometimes the villain is just too far gone, and the only way to defeat them is to destroy them… or to pull one thread in their plans and let them destroy themselves.
Cynical? Maybe a little. But hey, these are the ’90s we’re talking about; cynicism was very hip back then. And at least I balance it out with plenty of hope and positivity – as soon as my protagonists save the day (and they always do, no matter how hard it is), they earn the hell out of their happy endings 😁
The sad thing is that I once went on a date with a girl who had the same problem — albeit, not insane. Super religious and trying to be pure, but she was actually attracted to girls. Amicably ended things, but I still felt for her. It can’t be easy being raised to believe what you feel naturally is evil and wrong.
Sorry Deb, any sympathy I could have had for you flew right out the window once you vowed to destroy the life of the person you claim to “love”… as well as for making everyone else’s lives (including your son) miserable.
Does anyone here have an actual degree in psychology? Because I’d love to read an actual psycho-analysis of Debbie Downer over here. Or get in contact with “The Vile Eye” and have him analyze Deb’s Evil.
I remember (a bit vaguely by this point) reading the original arc, where Tina was the M.A.D. woman and I gotta say… at least for Tina I felt sympathy. Her motivation came from a place of good intentions and a misguided attempt at making her mother proud. And she did get better after that. She didn’t get a redemption arc, but she did get a good reality check and adjusted her behavior to be better.
Now, Deb on the other hand? From her monolog here, she came from a very homophobic household. But instead of embracing who she is or having good intentions behind her actions, she decided to go full psycho. Her motivation is fueled by critical levels of pent-up “horny” which developed into spite and hatred. All she did so far, was intended as one big F-you to Tina: a straight woman who neither realized nor reciprocated her feelings. Even now her confession isn’t filled with “sadness” and “regret for her actions. It is nothing but pure vitriol. Unlike Tina, there is no redeeming her.
I hope that in future arcs there may be a less over-the-top villain. Someone who’d have a realistic chance at redemption towards the end of their arc. Someone who won’t be as batshit insane and whose motivations would seem bad to the main cast, but in reality, would actually have good intentions behind them. And with some guidance or constructive criticism from the main cast, would result in something that would result in a positive change.
@Red Rain: Indeed, both of them being cell mates would be hilarious, but the main difference between them is that Deb at least had Jacob, but he lost him because of her wanting a life she thought was better for him and she blames Tina for that. Jessica on the other hand accused Lindsay for “stealing” everything from her (her friends, her popularity, Craig…) but the actual thing was nothing had ever belonged to her.
Um…hey, mister policeman? You’ve got a lady who just punched out a cameraman earlier today, and is now in the process of having a complete mental breakdown right in front of the woman who she vehemently hates/loves/hateloves/lovehates. Maaaaaaaaybe you should look up from your damn Game Boy and intervene here.
Love in obsession. I suppose since she believed Tina was implanting “impure” thoughts inside her head, Deb thought she’d send some mental messages in return. Could be why she’s acting like Tina could ever read her mind and was actively engaged in the mental combat like Deb instead of it just being one-sided internalized homophobia.
Honestly, I want to pity Deb a bit, even though she’s a repressed holier than thou psycho lesbian. But in the end, she brought her fate on herself. She and Jessica aren’t that much different from one another. They both always want to be in control, both believe they are in the right no matter what others say and both are willing to cross lines to get what they want. And in the end, Deb’s quest to maintain her power cost her everything, just like how Jessica’s quest to gain back the power she lost cost her everything.
P.S. – Deb and Jessica being cell mates would be hilarious.
Wait, what? OK, NOW this is “A falling for B” out of nowhere craziness.
Deb is on her way to court. If this is what she has to come clean about, what does she think her court mandated punishment will be like? Jail in the 70s movies sex prison? At least all the showers will be cold.
Deb’s a felon, a criminal, a jailbird. Imagine what that’ll do to her teaching
career, (not what fell out of today’s box of crazy). She’ll be running Detention and handling delinquents. This is almost enough to make me want to see Ashleigh arrested for some reason.
Tina is having a very strange day.
My problem with the villains in NNS isn’t so much that they lack any motivation, it’s more the fact that they’re all so ridiculously over-the-top like they came straight out of “Animaniacs.” Don’t get me wrong, I love over-the-top villains, but when you KEEP making every villain either a raging lunatic or a slimeball, it gets old really fast. Not to mention their punishments typically range from just simply being annoyed to mere punches in the face.
Which is why I appreciate that we’re getting some level of depth with Deb here, showing she has an actual motivation without being TOO over-the-top.
I kinda guessed it was that “loved a target, but couldn’t express it properly” thing with her. Deb seemed way to fixated on Tina and always mocking her family like some brat trying to come off as mature. By her third story arc, I pretty much figured this might be case, and now we have confirmation. Can’t say it wasn’t fun getting there though, hehe. And JB, I get where your coming from. I don’t mind a villain who just crazy for the sake of crazy or evil. And yeah nuanced villains are fine too, explaining why they are how they are but too far gone to realize actions. But man do I get annoyed with some media who either don’t want to properly punish villains or too taken with them to really do so and half-ass it like saying they were punished offscreen rather then showing it. I’ve had my fair share of bullies too, got some victories over a few of them but likewise had to walk away from some conflicts unfulfilled but ultimately doing so rather then continue a pointless fight, online pricks especially. So stories like these really keep my spirit up that there can be some justice in the world. Kudos.
@jbwarner86 Many of us have been bullied and vice-versa at some point of our lives. And I have seen many other artists who shared your views about villains getting redeemed at the end and I have no problem with that.
I myself admit I am too new as a follower of your strips, but I have seen the previous ones in this site and, as @The Eye said, Tina was in the same place as Deb in the previous continuity. I have even seen Tina’s own flats when it comes to catch up with then-modern kids such as having a co-worker into dressing up as a Ninja Turtle and it ended so badly.
And reading what @M has post, yes, both Deb and Jessica has many things in common but they did what they did for different reasons: Jessica wanted to “recover everything she had lost” by getting rid of Lindsay, while Deb had to hide up her homosexuality by doing what she did while blaming everyone (aside from her ex and Tina) for her OWN failures. She went as far by even taking Jacob away from his father and give him what she thought it was best for him (or for HER, actually).
Well, at least Deb’s getting all that frustration out of h…
Wait…”Falkowski”?!?
@jbwarner86: Maybe I’m acting like an armchair psychologist, but it might be that the strong desire from your readership for villains who are less over-the-top comes from a similar place as some of the weariness of the inclusion of the contemporary politics. And, it seems that if one wants a character “who’d have a realistic chance at redemption,” we needn’t look further than Lindsay, an ex-villain who joins the series post heel-face turn. Speaking of which, I appreciate that Jessica’s revenge on Lindsay was a villainous form of “pulling one thread in their plans and letting them destroy themselves.”
@The Eye: I guess this might be self-evident from the last three years of Nineteen-Ninety-Something, but personally I’m tired of this modern trend in writing where every villain needs to be sympathetic and get redeemed at the end. Me, I love writing monsters. To me, it’s so satisfying for my characters to outsmart a vicious selfish bully and bring all their plans crashing down around them. I don’t get nearly as much of a sense of accomplishment from villains who just realize on their own that they’re the bad guys – I think it’s more interesting to explore why they’re convinced they’re not.
I’m sure it comes from growing up in an environment where almost everyone in my life picked on me constantly, for reasons I couldn’t even understand. And now as an adult, I look at the news and see the same kind of smug unrepentant jerks, only now they run the whole world. To this day, I still want to know why bad people do what they do, but I am under no sort of impression that they will ever change their ways. Sometimes the villain is just too far gone, and the only way to defeat them is to destroy them… or to pull one thread in their plans and let them destroy themselves.
Cynical? Maybe a little. But hey, these are the ’90s we’re talking about; cynicism was very hip back then. And at least I balance it out with plenty of hope and positivity – as soon as my protagonists save the day (and they always do, no matter how hard it is), they earn the hell out of their happy endings 😁
The sad thing is that I once went on a date with a girl who had the same problem — albeit, not insane. Super religious and trying to be pure, but she was actually attracted to girls. Amicably ended things, but I still felt for her. It can’t be easy being raised to believe what you feel naturally is evil and wrong.
To every lesbian reading this.
I am so sorry..
Sorry Deb, any sympathy I could have had for you flew right out the window once you vowed to destroy the life of the person you claim to “love”… as well as for making everyone else’s lives (including your son) miserable.
Does anyone here have an actual degree in psychology? Because I’d love to read an actual psycho-analysis of Debbie Downer over here. Or get in contact with “The Vile Eye” and have him analyze Deb’s Evil.
I remember (a bit vaguely by this point) reading the original arc, where Tina was the M.A.D. woman and I gotta say… at least for Tina I felt sympathy. Her motivation came from a place of good intentions and a misguided attempt at making her mother proud. And she did get better after that. She didn’t get a redemption arc, but she did get a good reality check and adjusted her behavior to be better.
Now, Deb on the other hand? From her monolog here, she came from a very homophobic household. But instead of embracing who she is or having good intentions behind her actions, she decided to go full psycho. Her motivation is fueled by critical levels of pent-up “horny” which developed into spite and hatred. All she did so far, was intended as one big F-you to Tina: a straight woman who neither realized nor reciprocated her feelings. Even now her confession isn’t filled with “sadness” and “regret for her actions. It is nothing but pure vitriol. Unlike Tina, there is no redeeming her.
I hope that in future arcs there may be a less over-the-top villain. Someone who’d have a realistic chance at redemption towards the end of their arc. Someone who won’t be as batshit insane and whose motivations would seem bad to the main cast, but in reality, would actually have good intentions behind them. And with some guidance or constructive criticism from the main cast, would result in something that would result in a positive change.
Sorry for the ramble. I’ll show myself out.
Well, that’s one way to confess…
@Red Rain: Indeed, both of them being cell mates would be hilarious, but the main difference between them is that Deb at least had Jacob, but he lost him because of her wanting a life she thought was better for him and she blames Tina for that. Jessica on the other hand accused Lindsay for “stealing” everything from her (her friends, her popularity, Craig…) but the actual thing was nothing had ever belonged to her.
Um…hey, mister policeman? You’ve got a lady who just punched out a cameraman earlier today, and is now in the process of having a complete mental breakdown right in front of the woman who she vehemently hates/loves/hateloves/lovehates. Maaaaaaaaybe you should look up from your damn Game Boy and intervene here.
Also, Tina’s maiden name is Falkowski? Neat!
Love in obsession. I suppose since she believed Tina was implanting “impure” thoughts inside her head, Deb thought she’d send some mental messages in return. Could be why she’s acting like Tina could ever read her mind and was actively engaged in the mental combat like Deb instead of it just being one-sided internalized homophobia.
Honestly, I want to pity Deb a bit, even though she’s a repressed holier than thou psycho lesbian. But in the end, she brought her fate on herself. She and Jessica aren’t that much different from one another. They both always want to be in control, both believe they are in the right no matter what others say and both are willing to cross lines to get what they want. And in the end, Deb’s quest to maintain her power cost her everything, just like how Jessica’s quest to gain back the power she lost cost her everything.
P.S. – Deb and Jessica being cell mates would be hilarious.
Wait, what? OK, NOW this is “A falling for B” out of nowhere craziness.
Deb is on her way to court. If this is what she has to come clean about, what does she think her court mandated punishment will be like? Jail in the 70s movies sex prison? At least all the showers will be cold.
Deb’s a felon, a criminal, a jailbird. Imagine what that’ll do to her teaching
career, (not what fell out of today’s box of crazy). She’ll be running Detention and handling delinquents. This is almost enough to make me want to see Ashleigh arrested for some reason.
Tina is having a very strange day.
…and the cop’s just playing with a Game Boy.
Prove Tina wrong, how? I fully don’t understand Deb’s motives, but she’s clearly crazy so I guess I’m not supposed to?
It’s not Tina’s ice cream that’s melting right now…
Deb needs SERIOUS help
This has got to be the most unfortunate way to come out of the closet… like, EVER.